At the end of chapter 8 on page 76 there is a passage that strikes me: “Later there was a mournful cry….A motor car came along the road shoving the dark before it….The dark shut down behind it….” How can you shove the dark? How does dark shut down? Well, it doesn't in real life, but Woolf almost gives darkness a shape that one would be able to move around and control. This image is such a peculiar one that I figure there must be some other meaning behind it, but I cannot quite figure out what it is.
Also, this passage brought my mind over to page 137 where Woolf says, “Darkness drops like a knife over Greece.” Is there a connection between the two of them? What is the significance of these images? They make the darkness seem like a substantial, tangible object, when, in reality, darkness has no substance and no matter. Is this just the foreshadowing of Jacob's death? - kkr-c Jan 29, 2008
I think that those images of darkness that kkr mentions represent the looming war (which in turn represents Jacob's death since he dies at the hands of war) for a couple reasons. First of all, Woolf has been dropping subtle hints about the war to come throughout these last serveral chapters, like on 96 where she mentions that "a mass of putrid carrion" lies at the base of a tree. Secondly, darkness is such a universal symbol of death/evil that I couldn't think of anything else that it could represent but war and Jacob's death.
As to why Woolf makes the darkness tangible, I'm not sure, but here is my theory: since war/Jacob's death is inevitable, the darkness too is something inevitable. It's like a heavy blanket that is covering the earth and that cannot be removed. In the example of the motor car that katie uses above, the car is trying to push the darkness out of the way, but the darkness wins in the end when it "shut[s] down behind [the car]." Woolf tangible-izes (sorry, i know that's not a real word) the darkness in order to explain situations through imagry. I guess it was more poetic for her to say "darkness drops like a knife over Greece," than "the war's finally here and Jacob got killed in it." - lma-c Jan 29, 2008
I also marked the passage on page 76 because I wasn’t sure what it meant. The only thing I thought was that it emphasized how life goes on. Even through everything that is being described in the paragraph, life moved on. “The dark shut down behind it…the worn voices of the clocks repeated the fact of the hour all night long… [Jacob] rose. He stretched himself. He went to bed.” I have found this idea recurring throughout the novel. In this passage darkness could simply symbolize the end of the day, or life of Jacob. Keeping with the theme that life goes on, the darkness shuts down, but Jacob’s life moves on. - kec-c Jan 29, 2008
Interesting interpretation of the passage KEc, I had not thought that the passage symbolized the end of Jacob's life. Although, I'm not exactly sure what Woolf is trying to say in this passage, I did find it interesting that the image of the car does not fit into the scenario. The paragraph is talking about snow and the country, but all of the sudden, this car appears. To me it seemed a bit strange. However, I think that is could have been an illustration of time passing and the many different things that occur throughout the night that doesn't catch the attention of peope. For example, there is a description of snow falling from a branch. I see a connection between night and the life of Jacob because it too has many insignificant events that Woolf chose to include in the novel. The car could be a symbol for life because it encounters darkness, but then passes it. The same applies to life because darkness is only temporary. Does anyone have any different interpretations of this passage? Does it relate to Jacob's life?- KSm-c Jan 30, 2008
This is a confusing passage. I marked it but was still unsure of its meaning. I think that what kec stated makes perfect sense. It is a common theme throughout the book especially with Jacob to keep moving forward. The thought that the darkness means to keep moving forward could easily be referring to Jacob's life and his drive to keep going on. I think that the darkness that Woolf wrote about is another way to keep up with the theme of moving on in the book. - kfr-c Jan 31, 2008
Well, in answer to the first part of the original post, I thought it had to do with the headlights of the car. When it is dark out, we turn on our lights. These lights seem to push the darkness away from the front of the car. But behind the car, we have no bright lights. When the lights from the front of the car are not longer bright enough to be seen in the back, it is as if the darkness is pressing down.
I think the darkness was connected to Jacob's life in many ways, although it does seem to lead to his death (but I suppose all things do). The darkness symoblized the hard times that were comming - war and inevitably Jacob's death. I think Woolf made it some thing tangable so that we could fully realize the imprtance and weight of what it brought with it. - MBe-c Jan 31, 2008
"A motor car came along the road shoving the dark before it….The dark shut down behind it….” When I read this, I don't necessarily think of the darkness as tangible. Instead, I see the car as an individual. Instead of us being able to push the darkness by choice, I think we are forced to have the darkness looming in front of us everywhere we go. And this would be true if the darkness referred to death. Everyone is going to die, and death can only stay in front of us as long as it is not our time to die. It will come sometime and we have no control over it - I get that feeling from the dark shutting down behind the car. The possibility of death is constant, and its (in most cases) not our decision to determine when it will consume us. - Sha-c Jan 31, 2008
What I noticed most about this passage was the fact that the real action came with the car “shoving the darkness.” I’m not sure if that makes sense to everyone. It seemed as if all of the other elements of nature described in that scene were minding their own business not disrupting anyone else’s. The snow was just simply falling, the grass was just on the top of the hill, the stream ran by the side of the road, and then all of a sudden BAM! The motor came along and “shoved” the darkness, and then the darkness shut down. What is it about this motor that seems to disturb this sense of peace? The important part of this passage, however, is how Jacob is tied in with it all. Woolf continues to describe the scene and there are clocks, which Jacob hears. He puts out the fire, gets up, stretches, and goes to bed. End of chapter. To me there is a contrast here with the peace that Jacob is left with. There are all of these disturbances that have an effect, like how the clocks make Jacob get up and all that, but yet he does find rest. Going with the symbolism of Jacob’s death, does his going to bed after being disturbed allude to the fact that he will find peace in heaven after his death?- AGe-c Feb 1, 2008
I obviously could be way off base with this, but I thought that the darkness was representing all the other times in the past and future, everything outside the present. As we have discussed in class, this book seems to be very focused on the fleeting nature of life, such as with beauty. Jacob seems to have troubles dealing with the direction the world is heading or just the direction his life is leading, and he also seems to worry a great deal about the past, with all the classics and the Greeks. As Woolf is trying to point out, all those times are really insignificant to us because the only thing we have is the present. So when I saw that there was darkness before and after the car that's what i thought. - mka-c Feb 1, 2008
I agree with the darkness symbolizing death, but i am also interested in the car. The darkness is obviously the key element, but i wonder if the car plays some part too. I thought maybe the car could represent human life or maybe more specific and represent Jacob. if we all agree that the darkness represents death and is foreshadowing Jacob's death maybe then the car is symbolizing Jacob. The car is completely surrounded by the darkness so i think that we are witnessing that Jacob cannot escape death--he is surrounded.
Also, about the darkness being tangible i agree with that but i also think that Woolf was more just using personification. I don't know if the purpose was to make darkness something that you could grab onto or be able to touch i think she was just making it appear to be real and be able to have action. I think both ways both have an impact on us readers so maybe it is not bad if we take it both ways or just one or the other. - JJa-c Feb 1, 2008JJa-c
See, I almost want to say that that car had some sort of historical importance, but Duke FF's assasination was in the morning, not at six. Well, regardless, the darkness is exactly that: darkness in every percievable sense. Death, disaster, suffering, unknown troubles, all that. The fact that it's sneaking upon this different things, or approaching without being noticed just shows how the doom is steadily coming that no one is aware of. In fact, the different things described, the car, jacob, the snow on a tree branch, don't relate on the surface, which shows how regardless of what was going on, they're going to be affected by the darkness, whether they realize it or not. And the darkness is made almost tangible in the sense that it has its tangible signs: those I mentioned before, death being a big one. Death here is really sneaking up upon its prey. - AZU-C Feb 2, 2008
Also, this passage brought my mind over to page 137 where Woolf says, “Darkness drops like a knife over Greece.” Is there a connection between the two of them? What is the significance of these images? They make the darkness seem like a substantial, tangible object, when, in reality, darkness has no substance and no matter. Is this just the foreshadowing of Jacob's death? -
I think that those images of darkness that kkr mentions represent the looming war (which in turn represents Jacob's death since he dies at the hands of war) for a couple reasons. First of all, Woolf has been dropping subtle hints about the war to come throughout these last serveral chapters, like on 96 where she mentions that "a mass of putrid carrion" lies at the base of a tree. Secondly, darkness is such a universal symbol of death/evil that I couldn't think of anything else that it could represent but war and Jacob's death.
As to why Woolf makes the darkness tangible, I'm not sure, but here is my theory: since war/Jacob's death is inevitable, the darkness too is something inevitable. It's like a heavy blanket that is covering the earth and that cannot be removed. In the example of the motor car that katie uses above, the car is trying to push the darkness out of the way, but the darkness wins in the end when it "shut[s] down behind [the car]." Woolf tangible-izes (sorry, i know that's not a real word) the darkness in order to explain situations through imagry. I guess it was more poetic for her to say "darkness drops like a knife over Greece," than "the war's finally here and Jacob got killed in it."
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I also marked the passage on page 76 because I wasn’t sure what it meant. The only thing I thought was that it emphasized how life goes on. Even through everything that is being described in the paragraph, life moved on. “The dark shut down behind it…the worn voices of the clocks repeated the fact of the hour all night long… [Jacob] rose. He stretched himself. He went to bed.” I have found this idea recurring throughout the novel. In this passage darkness could simply symbolize the end of the day, or life of Jacob. Keeping with the theme that life goes on, the darkness shuts down, but Jacob’s life moves on. -
Interesting interpretation of the passage KEc, I had not thought that the passage symbolized the end of Jacob's life. Although, I'm not exactly sure what Woolf is trying to say in this passage, I did find it interesting that the image of the car does not fit into the scenario. The paragraph is talking about snow and the country, but all of the sudden, this car appears. To me it seemed a bit strange. However, I think that is could have been an illustration of time passing and the many different things that occur throughout the night that doesn't catch the attention of peope. For example, there is a description of snow falling from a branch. I see a connection between night and the life of Jacob because it too has many insignificant events that Woolf chose to include in the novel. The car could be a symbol for life because it encounters darkness, but then passes it. The same applies to life because darkness is only temporary. Does anyone have any different interpretations of this passage? Does it relate to Jacob's life?-
This is a confusing passage. I marked it but was still unsure of its meaning. I think that what kec stated makes perfect sense. It is a common theme throughout the book especially with Jacob to keep moving forward. The thought that the darkness means to keep moving forward could easily be referring to Jacob's life and his drive to keep going on. I think that the darkness that Woolf wrote about is another way to keep up with the theme of moving on in the book. -
Well, in answer to the first part of the original post, I thought it had to do with the headlights of the car. When it is dark out, we turn on our lights. These lights seem to push the darkness away from the front of the car. But behind the car, we have no bright lights. When the lights from the front of the car are not longer bright enough to be seen in the back, it is as if the darkness is pressing down.
I think the darkness was connected to Jacob's life in many ways, although it does seem to lead to his death (but I suppose all things do). The darkness symoblized the hard times that were comming - war and inevitably Jacob's death. I think Woolf made it some thing tangable so that we could fully realize the imprtance and weight of what it brought with it.
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"A motor car came along the road shoving the dark before it….The dark shut down behind it….” When I read this, I don't necessarily think of the darkness as tangible. Instead, I see the car as an individual. Instead of us being able to push the darkness by choice, I think we are forced to have the darkness looming in front of us everywhere we go. And this would be true if the darkness referred to death. Everyone is going to die, and death can only stay in front of us as long as it is not our time to die. It will come sometime and we have no control over it - I get that feeling from the dark shutting down behind the car. The possibility of death is constant, and its (in most cases) not our decision to determine when it will consume us. -
What I noticed most about this passage was the fact that the real action came with the car “shoving the darkness.” I’m not sure if that makes sense to everyone. It seemed as if all of the other elements of nature described in that scene were minding their own business not disrupting anyone else’s. The snow was just simply falling, the grass was just on the top of the hill, the stream ran by the side of the road, and then all of a sudden BAM! The motor came along and “shoved” the darkness, and then the darkness shut down. What is it about this motor that seems to disturb this sense of peace? The important part of this passage, however, is how Jacob is tied in with it all. Woolf continues to describe the scene and there are clocks, which Jacob hears. He puts out the fire, gets up, stretches, and goes to bed. End of chapter. To me there is a contrast here with the peace that Jacob is left with. There are all of these disturbances that have an effect, like how the clocks make Jacob get up and all that, but yet he does find rest. Going with the symbolism of Jacob’s death, does his going to bed after being disturbed allude to the fact that he will find peace in heaven after his death?-
I obviously could be way off base with this, but I thought that the darkness was representing all the other times in the past and future, everything outside the present. As we have discussed in class, this book seems to be very focused on the fleeting nature of life, such as with beauty. Jacob seems to have troubles dealing with the direction the world is heading or just the direction his life is leading, and he also seems to worry a great deal about the past, with all the classics and the Greeks. As Woolf is trying to point out, all those times are really insignificant to us because the only thing we have is the present. So when I saw that there was darkness before and after the car that's what i thought. -
I agree with the darkness symbolizing death, but i am also interested in the car. The darkness is obviously the key element, but i wonder if the car plays some part too. I thought maybe the car could represent human life or maybe more specific and represent Jacob. if we all agree that the darkness represents death and is foreshadowing Jacob's death maybe then the car is symbolizing Jacob. The car is completely surrounded by the darkness so i think that we are witnessing that Jacob cannot escape death--he is surrounded.
Also, about the darkness being tangible i agree with that but i also think that Woolf was more just using personification. I don't know if the purpose was to make darkness something that you could grab onto or be able to touch i think she was just making it appear to be real and be able to have action. I think both ways both have an impact on us readers so maybe it is not bad if we take it both ways or just one or the other. -
See, I almost want to say that that car had some sort of historical importance, but Duke FF's assasination was in the morning, not at six. Well, regardless, the darkness is exactly that: darkness in every percievable sense. Death, disaster, suffering, unknown troubles, all that. The fact that it's sneaking upon this different things, or approaching without being noticed just shows how the doom is steadily coming that no one is aware of. In fact, the different things described, the car, jacob, the snow on a tree branch, don't relate on the surface, which shows how regardless of what was going on, they're going to be affected by the darkness, whether they realize it or not. And the darkness is made almost tangible in the sense that it has its tangible signs: those I mentioned before, death being a big one. Death here is really sneaking up upon its prey.
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